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davidge

10-year visas for over 50's approved

165 posts in this topic

Pattaya Business Services

 

Yes because australia has an attarctive  welfare system and everyone wants to be part of it.

 

My point was about the country allowing non-residents (ie those not included in the welfare system) to remain in the country for extended periods of time. Without something like a Work Permit people can not do this in Australia but can in Thailand.

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Although I don't think they will do away with the current O-A Visa I think the fact that they included health insurance as a requirement of this new Visa is particularly ominous....I seem to remember that particular chestnut has come up before with regards to elderly foreigners walking on their hospital bill, If I remember correctly the total country wide was only a few million baht but It would not surprise me if they made insurance mandatory for every Visa.

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On the very same day of this announcement they reduced the fee they charge some nationalities from 2,000 baht to 1,000 baht and eliminated it entirely for a period of time for others. It makes no sense to suggest the Indian tourists will flock to Thailand because the fee is reduced 1k baht while potentially sending 10's of thousands of guys already living here out the door because of significantly higher bars to go over.

 

If this replaces the one year extension to stay based on retirement there will be a fire sale in the condo market.

The fees for Indian tourists has always been 1k baht - there was some talk of increasing it to 2k but that hasn't happened. As for flocking to Thailand, we've been doing it for years...

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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The fees for Indian tourists has always been 1k baht - there was some talk of increasing it to 2k but that hasn't happened. As for flocking to Thailand, we've been doing it for years...

It did happen but now (in past few days) they have temporarily reduced it back to 1000 Baht

 

Visa fee measure to woo tourists

 

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It is the same at the US Citizen Services. 

You are required to raise your hand and swear an oath, hence subject to penalties if you are making false statements to a US Government official.

 

EDIT:

From Sulu:

".....USA (don't know about Oz) is only verifying that you proved to their satisfaction it was you who signed the document. So you're not lying to the USA"

 

No. that is not what they have asked me.   What they ask when you are attesting to the document is that "the information you provided is true to the best of your knowledge"  and you don't sign the document until after you attest to it before a US Government official.  You have filled in the blanks with your name and the dollar amount. That makes it a federal crime to lie to that official.  They already have your passport and have verified identity before they hand it to you for attestation, signature and then they add their notary stamp and sign it.

 

Well, it's been about 10 months since I was there and, since I normally have trouble remembering 10 minutes ago, I'll take your word for it. I don't actually recall raising my right hand but that doesn't mean I didn't.

 

 

Re these income decs from embassies. There have been recent reports over on TV of people been told by different immigration offices around the country that they now need to take these decs to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in BKK to be verified and stamped. So one more hurdle to jump over.

 

This was "strike 2", after which I went home.

 

My first attempt at the Non O-A fell through because you have to apply for the Non O-A at least 15 days prior to your permission to stay expires. I didn't find that requirement ANYWHERE, in all of my research, so I had to leave the country and re-enter on my 2nd TV.

 

Strike 2 was going to Jomtien and have them submit the Non O-A paperwork and at that point (2 months after having originally gotten the income document from the US Embassy), they had put in place their requirement to have Foreign Affairs in Bangkok affix their stamp.

 

So, having gotten the doc BEFORE the requirement, of course I didn't have the stamp. So Jomtien wouldn't submit and I, rather than jump through the new hoops, stayed another 3 months and went home.

Edited by sulu

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The insurance aspect is probably the worse. For farangs over 65/70 or with health problems they are likely to be refused insurance so no Visa however rich they are.

 

Also is the 100k gross or net. In my dealings with immigration the current 65,000 has sometimes  been treated as net income. So to get 100,000 a month net you would need to earn 40,000 GBP a year gross.

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The insurance aspect is probably the worse. For farangs over 65/70 or with health problems they are likely to be refused insurance so no Visa however rich they are.

Perhaps a Thai company would make something available as there would be a demand. It wouldn't be cheap for the cover provided but a premium on $10k cover wouldn't be a lot.

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The insurance aspect is probably the worse. For farangs over 65/70 or with health problems they are likely to be refused insurance so no Visa however rich they are.

 

Also is the 100k gross or net. In my dealings with immigration the current 65,000 has sometimes  been treated as net income. So to get 100,000 a month net you would need to earn 40,000 GBP a year gross.

Chris2004 I firmly agree with you about the health insurance being more of a killer than any increase in the money part.

 

It would be great to hear from BM,s who are in their 60, 70,s and even older who are now retired in Pattaya about how difficult or impossible it is to get health insurance.

 

If and its obviously still a huge if they did compel all retired guys to have health insurance before issuing them with permission to stay and they REALLY wanted retired people from overseas to live there.

 

A solution is obvious.

 

The Thais provide their own government scheme to enrol in and collect payments for.

 

They let guys with Work Permits do this so why not extend it, even at a premium ?

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The insurance aspect is probably the worse. For farangs over 65/70 or with health problems they are likely to be refused insurance so no Visa however rich they are.

 

Also is the 100k gross or net. In my dealings with immigration the current 65,000 has sometimes  been treated as net income. So to get 100,000 a month net you would need to earn 40,000 GBP a year gross.

 

In Malaysia they actually waive this if they can prove they at least tried to get it and were refused (my uncles been there 40 years), Though going on past dealings with immigration here that would involve a modicum of compassion or common sense which is severely lacking.  If I was a retired person this would be keeping me up  at night as I think they will probably grandfather the income requirements but make the insurance mandatory.  The main problem is the government here subsidises health care for the natives and they will probably be thinking quite rightly or wrongly why should retirees be clogging up the healthcare system.  With people living longer its only going to get worse as Thailand has a rapidly ageing population, Thais are having less kids so if you add the sizeable population of pensioners here I can kind of see where this is all headed....

Edited by FearlasMor

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Chris2004 I firmly agree with you about the health insurance being more of a killer than any increase in the money part.

 

It would be great to hear from BM,s who are in their 60, 70,s and even older who are now retired in Pattaya about how difficult or impossible it is to get health insurance.

 

---

 

Via Pattaya Expats Club Group Membership.

 

PEC.JPG

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Aussie Long-boat posted inside the quote box where I state:

 

And (referring to another poster) I haven't been looking but I don't see falang joining in bread lines or making undo use of community services?

 

And his response:

 

law and order,

sanitation

air pollution

all things that make up society and have to be paid for by someone.

i know you can say that is paid for by sales and turn over tax etc - but it seems the thai govt thinks that is not enough 

if you have a country of old people not working or contributiing to your economy  it will soon be in trouble - a big concern now in Japan and soon in China.

 

 

  Higher law and order costs associated with retirees? Most of us are tucked in early I think and not being a burden on law enforcement.

  When I pay my water bill I would assume they have that calculated to cover operating costs as well as future capital improvements?  If they don't that is their own failing.   I rather doubt that attracting a higher class of old farts will result in them sending MORE money than what is on the water bill, so how will excluding a good number of retirees help their cause?

   And considering how they are ramming through the new coal fired generating plant down in the south without an EIS or community input I doubt air pollution is a major concern of theirs, 555.

   Excluding some but not the wealthy expats does nothing for an aging work force obviously since they aren't allowed to work on a retirement Visa no matter how many or few they issue.  Apples and oranges.

   Maybe you could point out these free bread lines for us cheap charlies?  If it's good bakery bread I might be interested.....

   If they feel they aren't getting enough money milking this cow than raising the renewal fees or raising the application price would be a logical response IMO.  But I know that is making an assumption isn't it?

 

Well, it's been about 10 months since I was there and, since I normally have trouble remembering 10 minutes ago, I'll take your word for it. I don't actually recall raising my right hand but that doesn't mean I didn't.

 

They didn't require me to raise my hand on one or two occasions and I mentioned it the next time I was there.  The person I said it to was surprised and stated that it should happen each and every time for exactly the reason I stated.

-----------------------------------------------

The Khaosodenglish article of the 22nd suggests it was replacing the Non-immigrant "O" annual extensions of stay:

 

"....It would replace one-year renewable Visas and come in two installments of five years each, Athisit said. It was not immediately clear when the plan would be implemented....."

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/

 

They have now back-tracked on their previous statement and added another twist:

 

"......Applicants must not only leave 3 million baht untouched for one year in a time deposit, but they cannot withdraw more than 50 percent, which they must show proof was spent in Thailand for such as medical, property, tuition or similar expenses, according to the resolution. Want to renew it five years later? Visa holders must again show 3 million baht in the bank or an income of at least 100,000 baht per month....."

 

".....There seemed no clear answers as to whether the Visa would be a new offering or replace existing retirement Visas....."

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/24/details-10-year-visas-meet-mixed-reactions/

 

I think it is wait & see until it actually is implemented or rescinded. 

EDIT:  Maybe little Noi & Lek will start handing out receipts in the morning for "therapeutic massage"?  Or maybe not.

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It did happen but now (in past few days) they have temporarily reduced it back to 1000 Baht

 

Visa fee measure to woo tourists

 

Don't know when this was done and then reduced, because the last time I got a VOA was on 16th September and it was 1k baht. Came in November, but that was on a regular tourist Visa which also cost 1k baht, but now will be nothing from next month for a while...

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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Aussie Long-boat posted inside the quote box where I state:

 

And (referring to another poster) I haven't been looking but I don't see falang joining in bread lines or making undo use of community services?

 

And his response:

 

law and order,

sanitation

air pollution

all things that make up society and have to be paid for by someone.

i know you can say that is paid for by sales and turn over tax etc - but it seems the thai govt thinks that is not enough 

if you have a country of old people not working or contributiing to your economy  it will soon be in trouble - a big concern now in Japan and soon in China.

 

 

  Higher law and order costs associated with retirees? Most of us are tucked in early I think and not being a burden on law enforcement.

  When I pay my water bill I would assume they have that calculated to cover operating costs as well as future capital improvements?  If they don't that is their own failing.   I rather doubt that attracting a higher class of old farts will result in them sending MORE money than what is on the water bill, so how will excluding a good number of retirees help their cause?

   And considering how they are ramming through the new coal fired generating plant down in the south without an EIS or community input I doubt air pollution is a major concern of theirs, 555.

   Excluding some but not the wealthy expats does nothing for an aging work force obviously since they aren't allowed to work on a retirement Visa no matter how many or few they issue.  Apples and oranges.

   Maybe you could point out these free bread lines for us cheap charlies?  If it's good bakery bread I might be interested.....

   If they feel they aren't getting enough money milking this cow than raising the renewal fees or raising the application price would be a logical response IMO.  But I know that is making an assumption isn't it?

 

 

They didn't require me to raise my hand on one or two occasions and I mentioned it the next time I was there.  The person I said it to was surprised and stated that it should happen each and every time for exactly the reason I stated.

-----------------------------------------------

The Khaosodenglish article of the 22nd suggests it was replacing the Non-immigrant "O" annual extensions of stay:

 

"....It would replace one-year renewable Visas and come in two installments of five years each, Athisit said. It was not immediately clear when the plan would be implemented....."

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/

 

They have now back-tracked on their previous statement and added another twist:

 

"......Applicants must not only leave 3 million baht untouched for one year in a time deposit, but they cannot withdraw more than 50 percent, which they must show proof was spent in Thailand for such as medical, property, tuition or similar expenses, according to the resolution. Want to renew it five years later? Visa holders must again show 3 million baht in the bank or an income of at least 100,000 baht per month....."

 

".....There seemed no clear answers as to whether the Visa would be a new offering or replace existing retirement Visas....."

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/24/details-10-year-visas-meet-mixed-reactions/

 

I think it is wait & see until it actually is implemented or rescinded. 

EDIT:  Maybe little Noi & Lek will start handing out receipts in the morning for "therapeutic massage"?  Or maybe not.

 

I'm just adding to the discussion -the truth is at this point in time i have no idea why they are doing this / just speculating on a quite day.

 

but hey I'm enjoying the topic.

 

BUT I didn't say FREE breadlines - you threw that in your self.

 

may be the general was down in patts one day and just saw all these old bastards shuffling around all day and said " shit we are paying for them somehow.....they have to go or if they want to stay and play - they have to PAY as well"

 

 

cheers

 

aussie.

Edited by aussielongboat

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Don't know when this was done and then reduced, because the last time I got a VOA was on 16th September and it was 1k baht. Came in November, but that was on a regular tourist Visa which also cost 1k baht, but now will be nothing from next month for a while...

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

The higher rate started on the 27th of September: Thailand to increase Visa on Arrival (VoA) fee to 2,000 THB

 

As noted in the link I posted the temporary reduction starts on the 1st of next month and lasts until the end of February.

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I knew this was going to happen when they tightened up on the marriage extensions, It was only a matter of time. They started with the Visa runners then worked their way through. I had a couple of retired guys gloating about the crackdown on marriage extensions after people started getting refused if they didn't have kids and I warned them the requirements for a retirement extension had not changed for a long time and were due to be reviewed at some point, they both laughed at me!!! I know most will claim a huge loss of income if all these retirees leave the country but I honestly don't think the people in BKK that run the country give a squirt of piss!!! They have made that abundantly clear in the last year or so what they think of foreigners......

A new longterm Visa option is introduced and somehow you see this as "anti-foreigner"!!

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A new longterm Visa option is introduced and somehow you see this as "anti-foreigner"!!

We have to wait and see brewster, but I agree with what FearlasMor has posted, I think for many farang who have made their homes in LOS the writing is now on the wall.

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 I think for many farang who have made their homes in LOS the writing is now on the wall.

I think this conclusion is premature. Full details of the program are not even known yet.

 

I have seen many of these doomsday predictions over the years and none of them come to anything. In 12 months time I predict this storm in a tea cup will have come and gone.

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We have to wait and see brewster, but I agree with what FearlasMor has posted, I think for many farang who have made their homes in LOS the writing is now on the wall.

I don't think there is any evidence of that. In addition to this new long-term Visa option, Visa fees are being waived for some nationalities.

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A new longterm Visa option is introduced and somehow you see this as "anti-foreigner"!!

 

Not at all, I maybe should have worded it differently, what I should have said is that in the 10 years I've lived here any change to immigration policy has never once made the process easier, this is a long term Visa but I would posit that an extremely minuscule amount of people retired here would meet the criteria for it, also it says it for medical tourism?  Who goes abroad for an operation and stays 5-10 years?.  I actually think this is Thailand catching up the rest of the world as regards immigration policy,  I really do hope this is just a blow of hot air and that it will be business as usual as I have a lot of good friends on retirement extensions, but It cannot possibly hurt to have a back-up plan just in case this does replace the O-A Visa.

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A new longterm Visa option is introduced and somehow you see this as "anti-foreigner"!!

 

Now - $25,000 USD in the bank and ~ $2000 per month in income. I qualify.

 

New - $90,000 USD in the bank and ~ $3000 per month in income. I do NOT qualify.

 

You really don't see how this can be construed as "anti-foreigner" ?  :Think1:

Edited by sulu

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Indeed,and as mentioned here before,I also think there will be a very small quantity of expats who will put 3 million instead of 800 thousand on a bank account only to not have to go to immigration once a year for an extension of stay.

But of course I can be wrong, or/and thinking too much.

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My concern would be increased costs due to Medical coverage requirement . I have Insurance from my home country that covers me for over a million dollars when in Thailand so if they accept a copy of my policy from home  then no problem . If they insist on in country coverage then I would get the bare minimum and lie if necessary when it came to pre exisitng conditions that would increase the cost . After all my home country insurance covers me so it doesn't matter if the local coverage doesn't kick in .

 

For immigration to state they have designed something foreigner friendly is totally laughable .  The only possible benefit is one less annual trip to immigration for those that qualify through age and finance . Perhaps a saving on reentry permits but I didn't see mention of that .

 

At a cost of $10000 baht I would sign up just to avoid the annual visit to renew as they keep changing requirements which usually leads to additional visits to obtain a bank statement of one type or another.

 

Two years ago when Jomtien suspended doing renewals and I had to go to Bangkok they made me go back to my bank and get a statement specifying which

bank in my home country my deposits originated . They claimed it was to insure i didn't have Mafia money . Luckily I saw the humour in Immigration insinuating somebody was crooked (lol) while next door I could hear hundreds of passports being stamped that had been brought in , by the arm load , by travel agency employees . Apparently the strict requirement that each individual present themselves to an immigration officer when obtaining a Visa is open to interpretation (lol) .

 From poor attitudes to inconsiderate long waiting lines I put Immigration  at the top of my list of things to avoid in Thailand . 

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If I were retiring to Thailand then the new 10 year Visa would be my preference.

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Now - $25,000 USD in the bank and ~ $2000 per month in income. I qualify.

 

New - $90,000 USD in the bank and ~ $3000 per month in income. I do NOT qualify.

 

You really don't see how this can be construed as "anti-foreigner" ?  :Think1:

According to what is posted in this thread the report in Thai states that this is an additional avenue rather than a replacement for what is already in place. As I posted yesterday these type of statements are premature as we do not yet have any indication on how this will be implemented.

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As stated we don't know if this is additional or a replacement but I will adjust whatever

My thinking is never to fully retire in Thailand for family and medical reasons , three trips a year with health insurance arranged in the uk

I now have a house in Thailand and girlfriend loves the uk so all in all the Thai government has directed my future !!!

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