33 replies to this topic

[pablo]

i have this thai friend who i have talked to online on and off for about a year.she met this american who knocked her up with a baby which was born in thailand and has a thai birth certificate..........he married her in thailand (i think but not sure ) and now has got her a visa to the usa where she and the baby have been for the last couple of months...........they have recently married in the usa and the child has a usa birth certificate and a usa passport of its own (5 year passport ).......however the woman is not happy and her husband is acting very strangely and my guess is he is a drug addict of some sort by what she tells me..........he has not hit her but is not treating her like a man who cares about his wife......anyway my question is with the baby having a usa birth certificate and passport and the fact they are legally married in the usa (although she has the babys thai birth certificate ) would he be able to stop her taking the baby back to thailand with her if things dont get any better,,,,,,,she sounds a bit scared of him to me..........any advice appreciated


thanks guys for all the replies..........i do not want to post any of the personal stuff that she has told me about some of the things that have happened in case the husband is a reader of this forum but i can say that her english is very good and she is able to convey to me what has been happening and its not something that she would make up, the guy is being extremly verbally abusive to her (or so she says ) and things she has said lead me to believe he has a serious drug problem  ....i have been looking for thai temples or support systems in her state but have had no luck so far.she has every intention of sticking it out and says she loves him and wants it all to work more than anything but obviously if things get to a stage where the marraige fails she needs to know her options for an escape route ( its not about taking him to the cleaners)

i would be interested to know why she could be charged with kidnapping if she went for a "holiday" to thailand with her son without the husbands permission?

Edited by pablo, 30 June 2009 - 10:48 PM.

[general_dread]

if she goes to the airport with just the thai birth certificate and passport everything should be OK

later GD

[el_jefe]

he is legally the baby's father, so has moral and legal rights in the USA at least

She should consult a lawyer I would think. She can probably just up and go but might be better to check on some things first.

[ScottyG]

Sorry, but I think she is a little confused.  If the child was born in Thailand, can ONLY have thai birth certificate.  Impossible to have a USA one, as you can only be born in one country (impossible to be in 2 places at same time).  Might have a USA passport (naturalized citizen), but not a birth certificate.  If she has one, I suspect it is a forgery.
Anyway, I would suggest consulting a lawyer, as if he is named as father on whichever birth certificate, he has legal rights, and can have her charged with kidnapping if she tries to leave country without his consent.
Remember, think American law (which protects everybody's rights) not Thai law (which protects the Thai's rights).

[jocky king]

Poor girl..Seems nervous... You are the only link to help...Most Thai Girls dont have a clue to get out of the forgein country...

[blueboy0510]

if she fears for her safety or that of the child she should head to the nearest airport and get back

[deadwood]

my advice to her would be "chill out and grow up!!" she's been in the states for a couple of months and already she's thinking about jettisoning the whole thing because he's acting "strangely"? having brought two different wives over here from asia i can attest to the fact that it's a big transition for both of them. it takes time to find a comfort zone in this new situation. either they were married over there and he brought her over as a spouse or they weren't and he obtained a fiancee visa. neither of these things are easy or inexspensive to obtain. that alone shows some extent of caring about her and the child. did she think this whole move was like going to a new province?? maybe she should be talking with her husband instead of chatting online with another farang!!!! i would kick her right in the ass if she tried to run off with my child because she didn't find immediate comfort and bliss in her new country.

[Thai Tech Trader]

deadwood, on Jun 30 2009, 04:38 PM, said:

my advice to her would be "chill out and grow up!!" she's been in the states for a couple of months and already she's thinking about jettisoning the whole thing because he's acting "strangely"? having brought two different wives over here from asia i can attest to the fact that it's a big transition for both of them. it takes time to find a comfort zone in this new situation. either they were married over there and he brought her over as a spouse or they weren't and he obtained a fiancee visa. neither of these things are easy or inexspensive to obtain. that alone shows some extent of caring about her and the child. did she think this whole move was like going to a new province?? maybe she should be talking with her husband instead of chatting online with another farang!!!! i would kick her right in the ass if she tried to run off with my child because she didn't find immediate comfort and bliss in her new country.

HARSH WORDS. Are you on number 3 by anychance? LOL

[deadwood]

Bagwan, on Jun 30 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

HARSH WORDS. Are you on number 3 by anychance? LOL

harsh? gee, i don't find my words harsh in the slightest. that would be much better used to describe my treatment of anyone i found trying to sabotage my new marriage.

Edited by deadwood, 30 June 2009 - 08:44 PM.

[redfred]

i would be suspicious of her also ,online to an english man,married and living in us.maybe its me but something sounds a bit fishy.i know there can be problems marrying a thai wife as i posted yesterday,see divorce issues.

[arbiez]

ScottyG, on Jun 30 2009, 07:16 AM, said:

Sorry, but I think she is a little confused.  If the child was born in Thailand, can ONLY have thai birth certificate.  Impossible to have a USA one, as you can only be born in one country (impossible to be in 2 places at same time).  Might have a USA passport (naturalized citizen), but not a birth certificate.  If she has one, I suspect it is a forgery.
Anyway, I would suggest consulting a lawyer, as if he is named as father on whichever birth certificate, he has legal rights, and can have her charged with kidnapping if she tries to leave country without his consent.
Remember, think American law (which protects everybody's rights) not Thai law (which protects the Thai's rights).

I'm not a lawyer, but a couple of misnomers here in the 'close but not accurate category':

1) Any child born to a US citizen, either in US or abroad, is considered a US citizen. He is a citizen from birth, PERIOD. There is no naturalization process or courses to become US Citizen. Of course, the paperwork would need to be filed and probably a blood/DNA test to validate parental claim, but he's a US citizen.

2) As mentioned (and accurate), the child probably has a Certificate of Live Birth from Thailand. Along with that is some documentation in US to validate foreign soil birth of US Citizen. Therefore BirthCert and passport from LOS and Foreign Soil Birth document and passport from USA. **I don't know the name of the document that indicates foreign soil birth of US citizen.

As for the original story . . .

I'm a little bit curious why a TG would have a conversation with Brit about her marriage to an American and her desire to get back to LOS. (Seems to me like a bit of a wind up -- either she wants to pursue potential sponsorship from OP or she wants him to buy plane ticket back to LOS or she is in LOS trying out the next scam. Call me a cynic if you must, but that's how I see it.)

In short, New land+new baby+no job+husband go to work+language considerations=Farang not take care of me and want go home!

If she takes off, the Dad can charge kidnapping of baby and local authorities can appeal to BiB. The problem for her is getting to LOS and clearing customs before he finds out. Even if she lived in LA and therefore able to take the non-stop, we're looking at about 20 hours uninterrupted time without a police search and missing person report??? Given the length of flight and probability of a connecting flight if she is unable to take the Thai non-stop to BKK AND, unless he went on a 2-3 day business trip it's highly unlikely she can make it. She would be caught where ever she transferred planes or at Thai customs at BKK. (More than likely, the authorities will delay disembarkation and grab her as the plane sits at the gate--IOW arrested before she disembarks the plane.) However, if she makes it home, highly unlikely they will do anything because she is the mother and US court of law sides with the mother and LOS will fight extradition.

The only other option for her is to go directly to Thai consulate/embassy and pleads her case along with paid plane ticket. Once she steps foot in Thai gov't. office, she is in Thailand (safe). This is the Hi-So route. Going this route can get expensive and the Thai gov't. doesn't want to referee marital disputes and may relinquish her to local authorities for arrest or advise her to give up the baby. Assuming she isn't Hi-So, my bet is that she can't work this angle and if she was Hi-So, she wouldn't be married and discussing this with OP. She'd discuss with her family and family would make necessary arrangements.

She has another option available to her as the mother of a US Citizen. She won't be deported and can file for divorce (gets custody and alimony/child support) and apply for welfare. (Once she saves enough, she can fly home -- at risk of violating father's visits.)

Unless she has told you directly that he abuses drugs and doesn't take care of her, you have to believe some of this could be lost in translation. Unless he's a trust fund baby or a drug dealer, he won't have the money to pay for her move over unless he has a job. He wouldn't be able to maintain a real job to pay for her if he was always stoned. Furthermore, he wouldn't have gone through the effort if he didn't care for her. IMO, she is lonely and feels abandoned in her new surroundings because she has no social life and he isn't home.

If you are a real friend to her, ask her where she lives and research for a Thai community nearby (temple or college) and forward so she can build a social network. Tell her to work on her relationship and wish her well. If you are not a real friend, leave her alone so she's not encouraged to ruin the life of her baby.

Edited by arbiez, 30 June 2009 - 11:22 PM.

[loneranger]

ScottyG, on Jun 30 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

Sorry, but I think she is a little confused.  If the child was born in Thailand, can ONLY have thai birth certificate.  Impossible to have a USA one, as you can only be born in one country (impossible to be in 2 places at same time).  Might have a USA passport (naturalized citizen), but not a birth certificate.  If she has one, I suspect it is a forgery.
Anyway, I would suggest consulting a lawyer, as if he is named as father on whichever birth certificate, he has legal rights, and can have her charged with kidnapping if she tries to leave country without his consent.
Remember, think American law (which protects everybody's rights) not Thai law (which protects the Thai's rights).

sorry you are wrong
my son born in the uk has both thai and uk passports
and birth certificate and the thai birth certificate says born in uk

[loneranger]

jocky king, on Jun 30 2009, 09:24 PM, said:

Poor girl..Seems nervous... You are the only link to help...Most Thai Girls dont have a clue to get out of the forgein country...

they do they get told from their embassy
that if you have any problems in new country contact
thai embassy
as my wife told me when she first came here what advice she was giving

[loneranger]

arbiez, on Jul 1 2009, 04:37 AM, said:

I'm not a lawyer, but a couple of misnomers here in the 'close but not accurate category':

1) Any child born to a US citizen, either in US or abroad, is considered a US citizen. He is a citizen from birth, PERIOD. There is no naturalization process or courses to become US Citizen. Of course, the paperwork would need to be filed and probably a blood/DNA test to validate parental claim, but he's a US citizen.

2) As mentioned (and accurate), the child probably has a Certificate of Live Birth from Thailand. Along with that is some documentation in US to validate foreign soil birth of US Citizen. Therefore BirthCert and passport from LOS and Foreign Soil Birth document and passport from USA. **I don't know the name of the document that indicates foreign soil birth of US citizen.

As for the original story . . .

I'm a little bit curious why a TG would have a conversation with Brit about her marriage to an American and her desire to get back to LOS. (Seems to me like a bit of a wind up -- either she wants to pursue potential sponsorship from OP or she wants him to buy plane ticket back to LOS or she is in LOS trying out the next scam. Call me a cynic if you must, but that's how I see it.)

In short, New land+new baby+no job+husband go to work+language considerations=Farang not take care of me and want go home!

If she takes off, the Dad can charge kidnapping of baby and local authorities can appeal to BiB. The problem for her is getting to LOS and clearing customs before he finds out. Even if she lived in LA and therefore able to take the non-stop, we're looking at about 20 hours uninterrupted time without a police search and missing person report??? Given the length of flight and probability of a connecting flight if she is unable to take the Thai non-stop to BKK AND, unless he went on a 2-3 day business trip it's highly unlikely she can make it. She would be caught where ever she transferred planes or at Thai customs at BKK. (More than likely, the authorities will delay disembarkation and grab her as the plane sits at the gate--IOW arrested before she disembarks the plane.) However, if she makes it home, highly unlikely they will do anything because she is the mother and US court of law sides with the mother and LOS will fight extradition.

The only other option for her is to go directly to Thai consulate/embassy and please her case along with paid plane ticket. Once she steps foot in Thai gov't. office, she is in Thailand (safe). Going this route can get expensive and the Thai gov't. doesn't want to referee marital disputes and may relinquish her to local authorities for arrest. This is the Hi-So route. Assuming she isn't Hi-So, my bet is that she can't work this angle and if she was Hi-So, she wouldn't be married and discussing this with OP. She'd discuss with her family and family would make arrangements.

She has another option available to her as the mother of a US Citizen. She won't be deported and can file for divorce (gets custody and alimony/child support) and apply for welfare. (Once she saves enough, she can fly home -- at risk of violating father's visits.)

Unless she has told you directly that he abuses drugs and doesn't take care of her, you have to believe some of this could be lost in translation. Unless he's a trust fund baby or a drug dealer, he won't have the money to pay for her move over unless he has a job. He wouldn't be able to maintain a real job to pay for her if he was always stoned. Furthermore, he wouldn't have gone through the effort if he didn't care for her. IMO, she is lonely and feels abandoned in her new surroundings because she has no social life and he isn't home.

If you are a real friend to her, ask her where she lives and research for a Thai community nearby (temple or college) and forward so she can build a social network. Tell her to work on her relationship and wish her well. If you are not a real friend, leave her alone so she's not encouraged to ruin the life of her baby.

for that reply mate
the first thing i did was get her to meet lots of other thais
even when shopping would look for thai people shopping with husbands
and engage them in talking
ask the where she was from and ask them if they would like to meet up for a drink and meal
and now she has quite a few thai s visit the house now
just like being in thailand
problem solved
and it helps believe me

[deadwood]

excellent post arbiez!

[B5Jimmy]

She's in a bad situation, she can go home anytime, but he can stop her from taking his kid.  If she can escape and never come back with the kid somehow, she should do it asap.  If not, tell her to get a black eye, to call the police and have him arrested for spousal abuse.  She can then immediately file to become a naturalized citizen without conditions based on the abuse by her husband.  She'll have all her rights then, and can live in the usa on her own without needing him and get child support and alimony too.

[arbiez]

B5Jimmy, on Jun 30 2009, 03:32 PM, said:

She's in a bad situation, she can go home anytime, but he can stop her from taking his kid.  If she can escape and never come back with the kid somehow, she should do it asap.  If not, tell her to get a black eye, to call the police and have him arrested for spousal abuse.  She can then immediately file to become a naturalized citizen without conditions based on the abuse by her husband.  She'll have all her rights then, and can live in the usa on her own without needing him and get child support and alimony too.

A big "IF" there Jim. We don't know if she is being abused. If not, we shouldn't put the guy in a situation where he loses his future (and freedom) because she can't find someone to talk to and watch Thai Soap Operas. As you probably know, it's hard enough being a guy in US and having any sustainable relationship. Any potential conflict can land a guy in jail. Let's not throw the guy under the bus yet. He's paid a significant amount to get her to US. He must care to some degree or he would have walked away.

[loneranger]

B5Jimmy, on Jul 1 2009, 05:32 AM, said:

She's in a bad situation, she can go home anytime, but he can stop her from taking his kid.  If she can escape and never come back with the kid somehow, she should do it asap.  If not, tell her to get a black eye, to call the police and have him arrested for spousal abuse.  She can then immediately file to become a naturalized citizen without conditions based on the abuse by her husband.  She'll have all her rights then, and can live in the usa on her own without needing him and get child support and alimony too.

how do you know she is being abused
you only have her word for it
i think you should read a few more of the posters
and how would you like it if your wife /girlfriend was chatting to someone from uk online
and telling him all about your affairs
i think there is more to this than meets the eye

[deadwood]

B5Jimmy, on Jul 1 2009, 05:32 AM, said:

She's in a bad situation, she can go home anytime, but he can stop her from taking his kid.  If she can escape and never come back with the kid somehow, she should do it asap.  If not, tell her to get a black eye, to call the police and have him arrested for spousal abuse.  She can then immediately file to become a naturalized citizen without conditions based on the abuse by her husband.  She'll have all her rights then, and can live in the usa on her own without needing him and get child support and alimony too.

amazing! you crack me up!

[loneranger]

deadwood, on Jul 1 2009, 05:42 AM, said:

amazing! you crack me up!

i dont get it yank trying to fuck up another yank
well nothing surprises me with them
i learnt that in the army
nice to have friends like him
then you dont need enemies

[arbiez]

Pablo added more to original post

pablo, on Jun 29 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

...
thanks guys for all the replies..........i do not want to post any of the personal stuff that she has told me about some of the things that have happened in case the husband is a reader of this forum but i can say that her english is very good and she is able to convey to me what has been happening and its not something that she would make up, the guy is being extremly verbally abusive to her (or so she says ) and things she has said lead me to believe he has a serious drug problem  ....i have been looking for thai temples or support systems in her state but have had no luck so far

i would be interested to know why she could be charged with kidnapping if she went for a "holiday" to thailand with her son without the husbands permission?

Pablo

Thanks for the extra info. It gives a bit more to go on. Unfortunately, by posting and editing in the original post and not adding the progression of conversation in another box, some of us didn't read the update.

Given the additional data, I'd still say there is more than meets the eye. But if she is in harms way, she can still go home. The problem is with the kid.
The primary question to ask is . . . If father is such an a-hole, why would he buy her a ticket home after only a few months? If he isn't knowledgeable of the trip, how will she pay for ticket? If she has a job of her own, then why does she need him to make a decision? She files for divorce and travels free and clear. Of course, he would probably file some form of restraining order limiting the baby's travel.

Another thought: What may be deemed as verbal abuse to a Thai may not be to a farang. Is there "face" involved in the comments? Is she telling of abuse to improve her "face" in your eyes?

So to answer your question:

The father can file for kidnapping at any time if mother takes child away. If mother decides to go home for visit with baby, father is not under suspicion of mother not coming back. However, if mother doesn't get on the plane back to US, father can charge kidnapping and fight for custody and extradition of baby. (Courts still favor mother, but mother loses credibility as the trip home seems planned.) If she goes home, she loses money US court won't make him pay alimony/child support for baby she took away never planning to come back.

All in all, it could be on the up and up. If not, give her the number to closest LOS consulate/embassy. (Based on comments, it seems like you plan to buy her ticket. That implicates you in the kidnapping charge. Call it a case of a nice guy that finishes last.)  Whatever you do, don't buy her ticket directly!!! Western Union her enough to take the bus to nearest city with Thai Embassy. If she asks for airfare, then you know she wants money from you. Buses are invisible. Let her put forth the effort to end this. If you do more, all you are is an enabler. (In the end, it's not like you're getting her -- Think about that last statement a long time before you go further.)

I'm done with this subject now. NEXT

Edited by arbiez, 30 June 2009 - 11:14 PM.

[loneranger]

arbiez, on Jul 1 2009, 05:57 AM, said:

Pablo

Thanks for the extra info. It gives a bit more to go on. Unfortunately, by posting and editing in the original post, some of us didn't read the update.

Given the additional data, I'd still say there is more than meets the eye. But if she is in harms way, she can still go home. The problem is with the kid.
The primary question to ask is . . . If father is such an a-hole, why would he buy her a ticket home after only a few months? If he isn't knowledgeable of the trip, how will she pay for ticket? If she has a job of her own, then why does she need him to make a decision? She could file for divorce and travels free and clear.

So to answer your question:

The father can file for kidnapping at any time if mother takes child away. If mother decides to go home for visit with baby, father is not under suspicion of mother not coming back. However, if mother doesn't get on the plane back to US, father can charge kidnapping and fight for custody and extradition of baby. (Courts still favor mother, but mother loses credibility as the trip home seems planned.) If she goes home, she loses money US court won't make him pay alimony/child support for baby she took away never planning to come back.

All in all, it could be on the up and up. If not, give her the number to closest LOS consulate/embassy. Whatever you do, don't buy her ticket!!! (It implicates you in the kidnapping charge. Call it a case of a nice guy that finishes last.)

i still think more to this than meets the eye
and whats in it for you
as you seem to be taking a more than keen intrest in it imho
where you one her bf/or did you just have a soft spot for her

[dudebrah]

wow !!  I cant believe everyones stomping on this poor bugger for something his wife told another man !

Suggesting she fake spousal abuse !   Unbelievable

[loneranger]

dudebrah, on Jul 1 2009, 06:12 AM, said:

wow !!  I cant believe everyones stomping on this poor bugger for something his wife told another man !

Suggesting she fake spousal abuse !   Unbelievable

[pablo]

arbiez, on Jun 30 2009, 10:57 PM, said:

Pablo added more to original post


Pablo

Thanks for the extra info. It gives a bit more to go on. Unfortunately, by posting and editing in the original post and not adding the progression of conversation in another box, some of us didn't read the update.

Given the additional data, I'd still say there is more than meets the eye. But if she is in harms way, she can still go home. The problem is with the kid.
The primary question to ask is . . . If father is such an a-hole, why would he buy her a ticket home after only a few months? If he isn't knowledgeable of the trip, how will she pay for ticket? If she has a job of her own, then why does she need him to make a decision? She files for divorce and travels free and clear. Of course, he would probably file some form of restraining order limiting the baby's travel.

Another thought: What may be deemed as verbal abuse to a Thai may not be to a farang. Is there "face" involved in the comments? Is she telling of abuse to improve her "face" in your eyes?

So to answer your question:

The father can file for kidnapping at any time if mother takes child away. If mother decides to go home for visit with baby, father is not under suspicion of mother not coming back. However, if mother doesn't get on the plane back to US, father can charge kidnapping and fight for custody and extradition of baby. (Courts still favor mother, but mother loses credibility as the trip home seems planned.) If she goes home, she loses money US court won't make him pay alimony/child support for baby she took away never planning to come back.

All in all, it could be on the up and up. If not, give her the number to closest LOS consulate/embassy. (Based on comments, it seems like you plan to buy her ticket. That implicates you in the kidnapping charge. Call it a case of a nice guy that finishes last.)  Whatever you do, don't buy her ticket directly!!! Western Union her enough to take the bus to nearest city with Thai Embassy. If she asks for airfare, then you know she wants money from you. Buses are invisible. Let her put forth the effort to end this. If you do more, all you are is an enabler. (In the end, it's not like you're getting her -- Think about that last statement a long time before you go further.)

I'm done with this subject now. NEXT



thanks arbiez...................i have no romantic interest in this woman as some posters have implied....also i have no intention of providing her with 1 cent of financial assistance regardless of what happens...........the reason for this post was to find out the legal implications of her catching the plane home with the baby...............on further thoughts about her situation i get the feeling that the guy is only really interested in the baby and got her over to the states so he could get control of his sons welfare which would go some way to explain his treatment of her.( sorry i would love to post what she has said to me but feel it would be a bad idea in case the husband is on this site ) however i am not naive enough to think that she is just a silly woman who misses thailand like some of the posters have implied