26 replies to this topic

[isoclimax]

Hi,

Any of you had a prenuptial agreement before conclude a wedding with a Thai girl ?
If yes, I would like to know what it look like (content) and whats the procedures about getting one ?  Also how much does it cost ?

Ive look some web site located in Bangkok and it seems to be a bit expensive (45 000 bht)  including consultation.

Anyway, anything I can get from your experiences I would appreciate.

Thanks,

[Aussie Wolf]

isoclimax, on 18 August 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

Hi,

Any of you had a prenuptial agreement before conclude a wedding with a Thai girl ?
If yes, I would like to know what it look like (content) and whats the procedures about getting one ?  Also how much does it cost ?

Ive look some web site located in Bangkok and it seems to be a bit expensive (45 000 bht)  including consultation.

Anyway, anything I can get from your experiences I would appreciate.

Thanks,

if it's legit and legally binding, IMO thats a cheap investment in the grander scheme of things.

[footypjman]

No experience in Thailand, but the family law (i.e., divorce) attorneys that I know here in California almost all refuse to do them these days -- too many headaches down the road.

[superconsult]

isoclimax, on 18 August 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

Hi,

Any of you had a prenuptial agreement before conclude a wedding with a Thai girl ?
If yes, I would like to know what it look like (content) and whats the procedures about getting one ?  Also how much does it cost ?

Ive look some web site located in Bangkok and it seems to be a bit expensive (45 000 bht)  including consultation.

Anyway, anything I can get from your experiences I would appreciate.

Thanks,

I think you are Canadian.  I have done a similar case about 2 years ago when my client passed me a precedent Agreement from Canada and asked me for assistance in getting it done to suit his case.  That's done and my client was fully satisifed with my works.  I think I charge him 30,000 Baht for doing that job (including the expensive translation costs of the Agreement from English into Thai for the District Office).  I know that it's more expensive to get it done in Bangkok.  But it's true that some of the city firms are more qualified to do that job than many legal firms in Pattaya. Be careful when you make a choice !

[travelling_man]

Yes, the smartest investment you can make.  PRENUP

And it must be filed at the same moment as the marriage document!  Don't forget that or it is null and void.

Thailand has very specific rules on prenups ... and most competent attorneys want to draft the document to meet the requirements of your home country and Thailand.

The best .... Bill White ... Bangkok attorney ....

[ExpatDave]

No prenup. I figured if things don't work out, we will take up skydiving........

[isoclimax]

travelling_man, on 18 August 2011 - 06:56 AM, said:

Yes, the smartest investment you can make.  PRENUP

And it must be filed at the same moment as the marriage document!  Don't forget that or it is null and void.

Thailand has very specific rules on prenups ... and most competent attorneys want to draft the document to meet the requirements of your home country and Thailand.

The best .... Bill White ... Bangkok attorney ....

ok thanks for your input.  From Canada goverment web sit, there is one firm listed: http://www.chaninatandleeds.com/

also can you explain a little more on what you said in bold ?  

thanks

[pubstud]

How does one of these effect Thai law that everything acquired during the period of the marriage is to be split 50-50. And no special agreements between the two parties make any difference to the Thai partner having total ownership of house/property?

[travelling_man]

pubstud, on 18 August 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

How does one of these effect Thai law that everything acquired during the period of the marriage is to be split 50-50. And no special agreements between the two parties make any difference to the Thai partner having total ownership of house/property?

isoclimax, on 18 August 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

also can you explain a little more on what you said in bold ?  

First, I am not an attorney and I don't play one on TV.  THese two quotes really have many questions embedded that I am not qualified to answer.

A prenup is a marital contract and specifies what each party will get should they decide to separate.  

If the real estate is in the name of the Thai partner, a prenup will not alter anything regarding ownership of that real estate.  

And finally, isoclimax, Thai law requires that a prenup be filed along with and at the same moment as, the marital paperwork.  It will NOT be accepted at a later date, and would not be valid.

Edited by travelling_man, 18 August 2011 - 01:23 PM.

[pubstud]

I'm kinda stumped trying to think what you'd want to add to a prenup. Like what are you bringing to the party that you so badly want to hang on to? If I had something so valuable to me that I didn't want my spouse to get her hands on I'd just keep it to myself. I've already been through a divorce in Thailand, my lawyer explained that Thai law states what was acquired during the term of the marriage has to be divided equally. I'm not sure if a prenup would over-ride this law in a Thai court, especially a prenup with a foreigner, I'd suspect the judge would view it as a smart sophisticated foreigner taking advantage of a poor Thai woman. I'm no lawyer either but what I say here just seems to make sense to me based on my own experiences in Thailand.

You don't have to show all your aces at once. Whatever you're trying to guard with a prenup should be kept to yourself. That's what I'd do anyway. Hope this helps you...

[isoclimax]

the prenup will garantee that all yuour saving, properties, etc you have owned during your life BEFORE your wedding will remain to you. I understand that everything that I earn after my wedding will be divided 50/50 and its normal.

who knows if my fiancee doesnt have any bad intention ? you cant garanteee anything about it but for sure, bluff or not, a prenup will keep my mind safe.
I prefer to lose 50 000$ after 5 years of mariage than lose something like 250 000 after the first week of mariage.

get it ?

[isoclimax]

Oh and by the way, I discussed about it with her earlier today and she overeacted saying that i dont trust in her and this and that...  I just keep my mind cold saying its not about trust its about being responsible and these days most wedding goes through prenup.  She said that she have nothing in her background properties, nothing, why doing this ?  I said; then if you have absolutely nothing to lose by having a prenup agreement with me, where is the problem for getting one with me..? lol

I understand thai lady emotional reaction sometime its kind of overacting but for sure, I will never put my head under the guillotine.  wedding in thailand or in Canada for me will be the same and I will never doing it without a prenup. It is just a none negotiable fact.

Maybe I look rather dry  but I dont give a shit. I have some good saving and few properties and I work hard since many years to built some good time after my retirement and I wouldn't like to see all of this disappear in the hands of an evil mind through lawyer's rules..

Edited by isoclimax, 19 August 2011 - 01:23 AM.

[travelling_man]

pubstud, on 18 August 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

...
You don't have to show all your aces at once. Whatever you're trying to guard with a prenup should be kept to yourself. ...

If you don't disclose your assets UP FRONT, the court assumes you DID NOT HAVE THEM GOING INTO THE MARRIAGE.  

isoclimax, on 19 August 2011 - 01:19 AM, said:

Oh and by the way, I discussed about it with her earlier today and she overeacted saying that i dont trust in her and this and that...

It is just a none negotiable fact.

Yes, they think you don't trust them.  TOO BAD.  Their families tell them you don't trust her.  TOO BAD.  I had the worker at the Amphur try to convince my wife I was "getting over on her" and to NOT file the Prenup.  TOO BAD.

As you said and I am glad you did.  IT IS JUST A NON-NEGOTIABLE FACT.

[stevxpl]

You will need the document to be in English (for your reading) and in Thai (for her understanding) and provide her with a 3rd party lawyer of her choice. If you don't do both of these then if in the future you do split she can say that she did not understand the document or that you and your lawyer coerced her into signing something that she didn't understand.

The argument might not hold up for her in Thailand as anything before the marriage is yours but in Canada or any other Western country it would sink you.

[pubstud]

"who knows if my fiancee doesnt have any bad intention ?"
"...lose something like 250 000 after the first week of mariage."
"...I wouldn't like to see all of this disappear in the hands of an evil mind through lawyer's rules."

You feel like this and you still want to go ahead and get married?

[travelling_man]

stevxpl, on 19 August 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

You will need the document to be in English (for your reading) and in Thai (for her understanding) and provide her with a 3rd party lawyer of her choice. If you don't do both of these then if in the future you do split she can say that she did not understand the document or that you and your lawyer coerced her into signing something that she didn't understand.

The argument might not hold up for her in Thailand as anything before the marriage is yours but in Canada or any other Western country it would sink you.

Which is why I said to use a good attorney and I gave his name ....

[pubstud]

travelling_man, on 19 August 2011 - 03:34 AM, said:

If you don't disclose your assets UP FRONT, the court assumes you DID NOT HAVE THEM GOING INTO THE MARRIAGE.  




Yes, they think you don't trust them.  TOO BAD.  Their families tell them you don't trust her.  TOO BAD.  I had the worker at the Amphur try to convince my wife I was "getting over on her" and to NOT file the Prenup.  TOO BAD.

As you said and I am glad you did.  IT IS JUST A NON-NEGOTIABLE FACT.

Some years ago when I was living down South a German guy I knew married a Thai woman. She was what the Thais call a "good girl" didn't come from bars and worked for the government. After they married the German's room wasn't big enough for them and they needed to rent a house. Fortunately his bride's sister had a suitable house available, which she allowed the German to rent at the standard market price. Later the German's wife told my wife that the house was actually hers. She bought it some years earlier but never told her husband about it. She said to my wife if she told him the truth that the house was hers then the German would expect to live there for free, and why should she let the farang live there for free when it was her house that she paid for with her money. So it was easier to just say it was her sister's house and collect the rent money from the German.

So it seems Thais are rather adept at not showing all their aces at once, and keeping their assets to themselves.

[stud muffin]

You making all the Right moves.!! i would do exactly the same for myself if i ever got married..!!

[thorshammersca]

There is a lot of questions when thinking about marrige.
I plan to retire in Thailand got a girlfriend there.
Getting a house and marrige are 1-3 years off. It is hard to get all the infomation, so I am taking it slow.
Prenup is a posibility ,but I am not sure of the legality of it.
Another thing - is a Canadian will recognised by the Thai courts.

[thorshammersca]

There is a lot of questions when thinking about marrige.
I plan to retire in Thailand got a girlfriend there.
Getting a house and marrige are 1-3 years off. It is hard to get all the infomation, so I am taking it slow.
Prenup is a posibility ,but I am not sure of the legality of it.
Another thing - is a Canadian will recognised by the Thai courts.

[ginseng]

stevxpl, on 19 August 2011 - 06:12 AM, said:

You will need the document to be in English (for your reading) and in Thai (for her understanding) and provide her with a 3rd party lawyer of her choice. If you don't do both of these then if in the future you do split she can say that she did not understand the document or that you and your lawyer coerced her into signing something that she didn't understand.

The argument might not hold up for her in Thailand as anything before the marriage is yours but in Canada or any other Western country it would sink you.

I have a prenup as specified above. I had a Thai and American lawyer who works in Thailand help. My wife was very understanding of the whole thing. It has given us both piece of mind regarding our true intentions for marriage and what will happen if we divorce. My prenup is very fair to us both and she will get plenty if we divorce but the fact of the matter is I have provided her with a far superior life than she would have without me and do not deserve to be taken to the cleaners if we divorce. I don't want to go into all the specifics but I never would have gotten married without one and if she didn't like it I would have called it off.

Love is romantic but marriage these days is a contract that radically alters your rights unless you reclaim them with a prenup.

[ringadingding]

Mate. My friend got one made 2 years ago from Siam legal for 16,000 baht.

[Edge]

It seems like you're getting some good advice here, perhaps including -  "You feel like this and you still want to go ahead and get married?"


I would imagine it isn't all that difficult to protect what you have outside Thailand if you intend to stay in Thailand. I don't know, but whatever you have in Thailand is likely to stay here, one way or another.


As you are Canadian, why don't you contant a compatriate of yours, Sebastian at Isaan Law.
He's very knowledgeable and easy to communicate with and I would expect that You'll find the amount quoted of 45k to be too high.


In any case, always in Thailand remember the old adage - "Never be worth more dead than alive".
I once forgot that and a Thai Lawyer reminded me that for 25k (farang price) in Thailand you can get 2 men on a motorbike with one .38 revolver and 3 bullets.
I asked how come only 3 bullets. He said "Bullets very expensive in Thailand".


One other mistake I made was in assuming that Thai Lawyers are bound by ethical rules as with the UK Bar Council. In theory they are, but in practice you have to find a Thai Barrister who is prepared to take action against another Thai Lawyer. It probably won't happen and it would be very expensive if it did..
Not all Thai Lawyers are even qualified - a bit like Estate Agents in UK. Some are just Accountants or whatever.
Thai Lawyers will cheat and lie and falsify documents in favour of the Thai IME.


If you're in Pattaya I would start with Tony Justice at Magna Carta, otherwise try Sebastian.


Good Luck.

[TomT]

I hope it aint Por (the arse in your avatar) your planning on getting engaged with,
She's already engaged with a guy from Finland mate

[isoclimax]

TomT, on 30 August 2011 - 03:03 AM, said:

I hope it aint Por (the arse in your avatar) your planning on getting engaged with,
She's already engaged with a guy from Finland mate

Last time I nailed Por, she was texting her boyfriend (or another random sponsor) but the guy was from England.  I know she has few bf and regular costumers but she never mentionned to me about a finland guy.

And to awnser your question, no, I wont marry Por ;)