46 replies to this topic

[NorCalKid]

I run a bar in the US and would assume Thailand to be no different in the fact that you need to offer the bar something. You have no exp in a bar, no exp in Thailand, no language skills, no exp running a business of any kind. IMO if I were looking for a manager I would look at you and see you could offer my business nothing. If you are serious and financially sound enough my advice would be to get to Thailand, learn about pattaya, make connections, Start learning the language, learn all you can from bar owners and mamasans, spend enough time with managers and owners that you realize running a bar is hard work and the “it would be fun” wears off. Then use this exp to try to get a job. Then if all that works out for you and you still want to make a go of it, go for it.

I am probably in the minority. I think it is doable. I just think it would be a pain in the ass and not worth the money and headaches. I have been running a bar in Calif for 7 years. I would expect WAY more problems running a bar in Pattaya.

[eXplosief]

I've been thinking about this, and was wondering if running a guesthouse would be a better idea for a business. I assume the startup costs
would be higher (potentially much higher if you do a full refurb/remodel), but there would be far fewer issues with being directly involved
with the sex trade. (You're just renting a room to people. What they do in the privacy of that room is their own business...)

The recent opening of the China Garden is a perfect example. It's a small guesthouse, with a non gogo/beer bar business on the ground floor.
High quality upgrades with Western amenities in the rooms, prompt and high quality customer service, and excellent price points for the product.
It's been pretty much full up since it's opening, and has been getting glowing reviews from the various board members who have stayed there.

Running a guesthouse, with maybe a small bar or restaurant, is much more realistic in my view

I doubt the startup costs would be higher then for a GoGo

Edited by eXplosief, 02 February 2012 - 02:57 AM.

[badboybilly]

Running a guesthouse, with maybe a small bar or restaurant, is much more realistic in my view

I doubt the startup costs would be higher then for a GoGo

Are these guesthouses still running in Pattaya............'Fawlty Towers' guesthouse ....Happiness guesthouse....I know both owners worked hard to advertise
their business but never hear from them nowadays.
Guesthouses are 'cut throat' business's too.

[eXplosief]

Are these guesthouses still running in Pattaya............'Fawlty Towers' guesthouse ....Happiness guesthouse....I know both owners worked hard to advertise
their business but never hear from them nowadays.
Guesthouses are 'cut throat' business's too.

I think i read somewhere not so long ago that Fawlty Towers was now operating under a different name (/owner?). But i might be wrong. Never heard of Happiness.

How difficult it is to run a guesthouse might depend greatly on your target market and location. If you have the perfect location or target a very specific group of customers, for example 1 nationality, then it might be easy depending on the specifics of that market. Running for the general market and not on a prime location might be more difficult (read more effort needed).

I know of a guesthouse that targets guests from a specific country, the location is okay but not really good, the owner has a lousy business strategy, rooms are very outdated but priced in the lower end of the market (600 Baht/day) but he is full most times of the year. Simply because he is also running a restaurant downstairs that attract a lot of countrymen and word of mouth.

Another targeting people people from the same country offers more modern rooms, but priced 900-1200 Baht. He also has a bar frequently visited by people of that country and also has a decent rate of occupation but needs a bit more effort to do so.

Both these guesthouses are in Jomtien.

If you can get 80% of the rooms occupied on average then there is a decent income possible i think. But i am no bookkeeper and don't know all the specifics, so i could be wrong on this.

[dc_publius]

Perhaps the most important thing about running a guesthouse, is buying or leasing the guesthouse at a favorable price.

The ones I've seen for sale and for lease offered shit valuations where you have to keep occupancy at 80%+ just to break even. It's crazy.

Ultimately, the way to make money is to own the guesthouse... and guess what... you can't own your own shit in Thailand no matter what people tell you.

It may seem like people with guesthouses are making out - and they probably are - but that's because they bought their guesthouse 10 years ago at 1/5th the price (under wife's name or something) and are beneficiaries of the huge visitor wave and pattaya growth - trends that may or may not continue during your venture.

[badboybilly]

your right.....if you could buy the building instead of renting it........you would have a better chance of success.

[eXplosief]

I think you can also make a decent profit when renting, but you should ask an accountant for that. What i do know when renting is that you must make sure that you have a long lease, at least 3-5 years. The more you spend on renovating, the longer the lease should be.

I have seen it happen a few times that people thought they would be able to extend a 1 year lease, only to find that the owner thanked him for all the renovations after 1 year and told him goodbye.

[sinkorswim]

It will be next to impossible to get a managers job without any experience. As for owning a gogo bar, it can cost anything from 2 million baht up to 50 million baht for a successful gogo bar. Every gogo bar in pattaya is for sale at the right price.

[Jackpots]

I have'nt read all the posts here but I hope the 'old hands' talked him out of the idea!

[abonvivant]

You must be a happy chappy as you are obviously a very big optimist.

I notice you preface your post by saying you dont want advice not to start. You already knew the answers you would get.

I have a business in Thailand but it is based on what I know. I am an engineer and a designer. I have looked at what is offered in Thailand and then built a business model and a business around this. I make a 6 figure $ sum from this and I would doubt that many gogo or bar owners would make this income. I have also been in business for over 25 years as well as operating in China for 4 years before coming to Thailand. I know the ropes.

I can tell you doing business in Thailand is hard. Harder than China by a long stretch. Technically they need to be 51% owned by Thais but this can nullified by setting up different classes of shares so that although they own 51% of the shares they dont have any voting rights or access to any of the money. The company can also own land. If you invest over 2 mil bht and have 4 Thais on the books you can get a work permit but it is not automatic. I am not sure if this work permit can be obtained for a bar/gogo.

The other thing that will dissapoint you is that if you watch the really successful owners they dont drink or mess with the girls in the clubs. They are at the clubs regularly and keep a close eye on the business. It is a hard slog as running any successful business is.

I would recommend that you start a gogo. I have always considered opening a gogo club on the side to see if I could do it. I have never been able to see the figures that justify doing it. Maybe a newly started and refurbished club that has gone belly up due to lack of capital and management expertise may be cheap enough to justify giving it a go.

[TheBloodyRedbaron]

Firstly, well done for having the guts to ask a question that raises a lot of points, and creates debate/opinions. I'll preface this by stating I have never worked or operated a business in Thailand, but know many who do.

Getting a job in a gogo? Doubt it. Unless you have experience managing one, which it appears you don't. Work permit? Forget it. Maybe as an owner, but I'm not sure.
If you really want to do it, go for it. You state that you can afford to retire in Thailand. Do it, and use some time (years maybe) researching the idea from Thailand. That could keep you occupied for a while. Talk to owners, look at advertised bars for sale, ask a lot of questions (here and in person). If you are looking at owning a bar as a hobby and can afford to lose money on it - go for it, but be prepared to run at a loss for a while, at least until you learn the ropes. These losses could be minimized by extensive research before hand.

People ARE making good money from bars - successful ones are out there. Just don't go broke chasing that dream, and my advice would be to do your drinking elsewhere, if and when you have staff you can trust not to rob you.

[wingmanpi]

if you pull it off I wish you much success. keep us posted. cheers!

[Pattaya_Brian]

I almost have enough saved to retire...

You won't if you come to Pattaya and sink it into a bar.

I know that's not what you want to hear, but Pattaya needs another bar like it needs the plague.

Think development if you want to live in Pattaya and if that money is burning a whole in your pocket.

Develop and rent to other suckers.

[heymike]

Go live in Thailand for 6-12 months, get to know people, and THEN decide if you want to dump a ton of money into a gogo! You can google and ask on message boards all you want, but the best information will come from talking face to face with people who are doing it right now, and given the kind of investment you're looking at you definitely want the best information possible.

[Lostpack3t]

For your information, there is a book available about business in Thailand.

How to Establish a Successful Business in Thailand
Paperback: $14.96
July 1, 2007
(3)

• Paperback: 258 pages
• Publisher: Paiboon Publishing (July 1, 2007)
• Language: English

Available from Amazon.

Good book. Worth the read. Message me if you are still interested in owning agogo business. I have a friend that owns a bar and have some local knowledge as to what the environment is like. Securing a good lease contract is critical, as well as having good support from the local boys in brown. This all hinges on relationships and influence. I was told that "It is all about relationships", but I prefer "It is all about influence". And by this, trust and respect play a bigger role with the Thais than what many people believe.

Good luck. Dont forget the dream, but just sit on the fence for a little while to watch and listen.

[noodleman]

Why don’t you just go to the casino and put your money on red or black a much quicker and better outcome. Your chances of it becoming a success are virtually impossible. Unless you have thai knowledge or and have a very good background you are doomed to fail. Pattaya is a tourist town and unfornately when the world economy is stuffed people are not going to visit as much. Also when people will visit they will not spend like they use too. Many people now are not stupid and skipping the whole go go bar scene and just going to clubs which are packed now and the gogo bar are empty. The gogo girls go there anyway at the end of the night. Its like skipping the middle man. I went there every night for two weeks visited the gogo bar had a drink ot two but to be honest I could not afford 3000 baht for everything. In a club you pay 1500 max.

Also you have no control over the currency. That is the biggest issue by far right now british and american people are not getting that good value to the baht lilke ten years ago I remeber a pound being 70 to 80 and US dollar being 45. They are the biggest spenders by far. Also look at the board comments people are complaining at paying heavy barfines and also expensive lady drinks. I also think there is too much competion i remeber LK metro 3 years ago. Champagne agogo was the first gogo on the street. Fantastic and busy. It is well run and I visited last year It was still good however counted at least 6 other new gogo that popped up amazing. This would have to hurt the bottom line.

Edited by noodleman, 03 April 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[Joe_Le_Force]

Why don’t you just go to the casino and put your money on red or black a much quicker and better outcome. Your chances of it becoming a success are virtually impossible. Unless you have thai knowledge or and have a very good background you are doomed to fail. Pattaya is a tourist town and unfornately when the world economy is stuffed people are not going to visit as much. Also when people will visit they will not spend like they use too. Many people now are not stupid and skipping the whole go go bar scene and just going to clubs which are packed now and the gogo bar are empty. The gogo girls go there anyway at the end of the night. Its like skipping the middle man. I went there every night for two weeks visited the gogo bar had a drink ot two but to be honest I could not afford 3000 baht for everything. In a club you pay 1500 max.

Also you have no control over the currency. That is the biggest issue by far right now british and american people are not getting that good value to the baht lilke ten years ago I remeber a pound being 70 to 80 and US dollar being 45. They are the biggest spenders by far. Also look at the board comments people are complaining at paying heavy barfines and also expensive lady drinks. I also think there is too much competion i remeber LK metro 3 years ago. Champagne agogo was the first gogo on the street. Fantastic and busy. It is well run and I visited last year It was still good however counted at least 6 other new gogo that popped up amazing. This would have to hurt the bottom line.

Your content is decent but why do you feel the need to change the font so small. Old Bastards like me have to get the glasses on !!

[noodleman]

Your content is decent but why do you feel the need to change the font so small. Old Bastards like me have to get the glasses on !!

I dont know why the font came out so small sorry

[dcttechnology]

good business to start in patts

[misteregg]

I have a job in a gogo bar.
It's not all doom and gloom.
Some bars make money, many don't.
Many owners make most of their money selling the business on.
My advice would be, get a good lawyer.

Edited by misteregg, 03 April 2012 - 08:03 PM.

[Lostpack3t]

I have a job in a gogo bar.
It's not all doom and gloom.
Some bars make money, many don't.
Many owners make most of their money selling the business on.
My advice would be, get a good lawyer.

Good advice. Audit the business. This has its own problems, as with all cash businesses. Be very selective with who you engage (money talks). There are other ways to seek information as well.

[crossfield]

I think if I were going to go down that path I would find the most outstanding mamasun I could ..and marry her ..from an outsiders point of view its the only way you could get that idea to float...on the up side there are some good looking mamasuns out there

Edited by crossfield, 09 July 2012 - 04:40 AM.