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bakufoz

Indonesia Lion Air

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Whalley
12 hours ago, Bernie Num Nums said:



I for one would never fly with an Indonesian or Malaysian airline. The training standards including ongoing testing of pilots and the respect for human life are just too poor in those countries.

I wouldn't put Malaysia in the same category as Indonesia with regards to aviation safety.

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Whalley
17 hours ago, bakufoz said:

Sad loss of life.

The result of pilots taking on needless risk under pressure.  To fly an unserviceable aircraft, then not following standard procedures to deal with a runaway horizontal stabilizer. 

 

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Edited by Whalley

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bwnrnr

A little off topic but I was considering flying Thai Lion Air UTP -> Chiang Mai.   Anyone flown the Thai version and most importantly is it safer ?

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jollygumpster

I believe the Ethiopian flight that went down today was the same, new type of 737 max. 

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Whalley
5 hours ago, jollygumpster said:

I believe the Ethiopian flight that went down today was the same, new type of 737 max. 

Same airplane.

Very similar circumstances.

The Max has a new stall protection feature that trims the horizontal stabilizer nose down under certain circumstances.  

 

 

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Whalley

First time I can recall the grounding an aircraft just based on speculation and public fear.

A real slap in the face to the FAA who just Monday issued a global Continuous Airworthiness with regards to the Boeing 737 Max.

Total chaos in Canada today as a result of this huge loss of capacity with our two major carriers.

 

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tt2008

Terrible situation, but grounding them whilst they determine the cause of latest accident is a no-brainer.

I suspect the FAA might have moved a little quicker had it been an Airbus issue, but at least now the right thing is being done.

Lets hope they find the problem and sort it quickly.

I echo the comment of a previous poster re the 747. Always nice to look out of the windows to see 2 engines on each wing. Great plane, sad to see it go, although BA are still flying on some routes.

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CyberPro
7 hours ago, tt2008 said:

Terrible situation, but grounding them whilst they determine the cause of latest accident is a no-brainer.

I suspect the FAA might have moved a little quicker had it been an Airbus issue, but at least now the right thing is being done.

Lets hope they find the problem and sort it quickly.

I echo the comment of a previous poster re the 747. Always nice to look out of the windows to see 2 engines on each wing. Great plane, sad to see it go, although BA are still flying on some routes.

I'd venture to say the cause is somewhat obvious to any who have read the accounts. Aircraft uncontrollable due to _____ reason. What about this aircraft is different from preceding models?

After Boeing upgrades software on remaining  planes, that is probly the fix. 

Programmers should never (IMO) have the first/last/whatever...say in aircraft safety.

Yeah, the 747 rocks. Nothing to replace it now or in the forseeable future. :unsure:

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Whalley
8 hours ago, CyberPro said:

I'd venture to say the cause is somewhat obvious to any who have read the accounts. Aircraft uncontrollable due to _____ reason. What about this aircraft is different from preceding models?

 

Much was revealed on the first Lion Air crash.

The day before the crash, the pilots experienced a stab runaway and followed longstanding emergency procedures. The pilot used the stab cutout switches and carried on to a maintenance base where Maintenance failed to fix the faulty system.

Important to note that "Stab runaway" emergency procedure is a memory item rather than a check list item.  Pilots are routinely drilled on emergencies in a flight simulator.  So is the reason it's inexplicable that the Lion Air pilots didn't follow longstanding procedure.  For 50 years, the B-737 has been equipped with stab cutout switches to deal with this issue.

The Lion Air aircraft was illegally dispatched the next day with a no-go item.  A different pilot experienced a stab runaway and inexplicably failed to follow the normal longstanding emergency procedures and crashed the aircraft.

The second crash, nobody yet knows what happened other than the occurance was at a similar phase of flight.

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Whalley
Posted (edited)

The difference in the stab cutout switches on a 50 year old Boeing 737  is, there is no guard on the switches.  

Although there is one more thing that can automatically move the stab on the Max, the switch function remains the same.  Lift the guard and select them to the cutout position and the stab can no longer move except manually with a hand wheel.

 

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Edited by Whalley

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